FTB Announcement - Chunkloaders disabled.

Discussion in 'Minecraft /Sandbox' started by VintagePC, Apr 20, 2013.

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  1. VintagePC

    VintagePC GodModePC (Lead Developer) Srcds Server Operator Forum Operator Minecraft Operator Global Moderator Staff Member

    Well, despite the mythbusting thread, somebody's gone and herped the derp and installed a chunkloader on some sort of machine setup which makes the server crash on startup.

    Until further notice, chunkloaders have been disabled.
     
  2. Nacasius

    Nacasius Trophy: Keeps Coming Back. You must like it here!

    Do spot loaders still work?
     
  3. VintagePC

    VintagePC GodModePC (Lead Developer) Srcds Server Operator Forum Operator Minecraft Operator Global Moderator Staff Member

    No.
     
  4. Nacasius

    Nacasius Trophy: Keeps Coming Back. You must like it here!

  5. .silence.

    .silence. Vault Hunter

    What about the people who were playing by the rules?
     
  6. Wicked

    Wicked Active Member

    Just because you are playing by the "rules" doesn't mean you cant fuck the server over. Honestly the issue this morning was probably just a normal set up and something random happened and the end result was unplayable server. Chunk loaders are just a bad idea. having your shit do stuff for you when u arent there and reaping the benifits of that is lazy. Plus people that are online and wanting to play have to play with lag because someone had multi quarrys, turtles and mob grinders going.
     
  7. VintagePC

    VintagePC GodModePC (Lead Developer) Srcds Server Operator Forum Operator Minecraft Operator Global Moderator Staff Member

    That is unusual, given that portal and chickenchunks are completely separate mods, there's no reason for those things to be related, and if they are, I don't understand how. :/ I'll have to putz around with it when I'm next online.

    Even if we could enable loaders on a per-player basis easily, it's only a matter of time before it causes more problems → Even if everyone keeps it within limits, our server is reasonably popular now and as we get more and more people, more and more chunk loaders means more and more shit the server has to keep track of at the same time, eating more memory, CPU, and other resources, which equates to more and more lag. People pulling stuff like this only makes us reach that point faster.

    Looking back at my OP though, I should probably clarify that loaders are only disabled when you are NOT connected to the server - that is, your loaders should become active once you connect, so if you use nether lava as a power source or some such it shouldn't affect your machines while you're online.

    It sucks, it's not fair, and it's a PITA, but unfortunately I don't see any alternative. I'm open to suggestions though.
     
  8. McLovin

    McLovin IMMA CHARGIN MAH LAZER!!11

    As we are adding more people are we allocating more resources to the server to handle the chunk loaders?
     
  9. Nacasius

    Nacasius Trophy: Keeps Coming Back. You must like it here!

    Spot loaders only keep active a single chunk and can't be set to keep active any more then that.
    Could allowing spot loaders be seen as a compromise or would it still cause problems?
     
  10. Gh0st

    Gh0st Not a Noob

    Suggestion. Allot more resources to the server. We want to grow the server. When more people come and the lag gets worse are we just going to keep disabling parts of the mod to compensate for the lag? Triple the resources and that will help A LOT. The server is being bottle necked.

    So recently we added more chunk loaders to help with the lag. It worked. All of a sudden 1 day of bad lag and its a loader issue and now they are disabled.... ~Situation~ As we all know a lot of lag comes from a player moving across the server loading new chunks. The lag from that comes from the new chunk being loaded and stops if the player then stands in the chunk and doesn't load any more. So say I have a couple chunk loaders at my house keeping my surrounds non stop loaded. I can move around freely without loading chunks around my place.

    Now that you have disabled the chunk loaders, while I am not moving in my house I have 40 chunks around me loaded..I take a few steps forward and load say ~7 more in front of me.. I then run to the chest on the left side of the room ~7 more , then I proceed to the other side to my project table and load ~7 more. While I am moving inside of just 1 room I am non stop loading chunks now and so is everyone else. The lag is still here. This was not the problem. Chunk loaders don't move...they sit and keep chunks loaded and therefore don't cause the loading new ones while moving lag.

    There's a server that holds 120 players.. Opened 5 weeks ago. Chunk loaders are not disabled. They run with no lag while 70+ people are on and running machines, quarries and frolicking about. How can they do this...well I'm sure when they set a server up that size they allocated a godly amount of resources to it and for that they reap the rewards. In just a short time it is a hugely popular server lag free and fun.
     
  11. VintagePC

    VintagePC GodModePC (Lead Developer) Srcds Server Operator Forum Operator Minecraft Operator Global Moderator Staff Member

    They can't be distinguished in the configs. It's both, or neither. There could be a way to disable the recipe, but spot loaders wouldn't have prevented the problem this morning that was the reason they're currently disabled. (see below).

    It's not that simple. The server already has nearly ALL the 12 GB RAM on the box allocated to it.CPU usage is the problem -> Minecraft only uses a single thread, and can't make use of multiple cores. That's your bottleneck, the issue isn't a lack of resources, it's that minecraft is poorly written and can't actually USE them. So 3/4 cores are sitting idle while minecraft pegs the last one at 100%.

    You also seem to misunderstand the loader problem. The last major bout of lag was caused by leaking worlds. Placing chunkloaders SOLVED that problem by preventing worlds from ever getting unloaded and leaking.
    Loaders also weren't disabled today because of lag, they were disabled because someone had shit going on in a loaded area that was crashing the server on startup. will look at re-enabling them once we locate the problem and fix it.
     
  12. Gh0st

    Gh0st Not a Noob

    Crashing on start up.. One person had problems and the whole has to pay? Why is this never a personal computer problem as a player? When 1 person has problems and the rest are not, I don't see how that becomes a server issue. Maybe yes whatever you are talking about was causing some lag but what isn't? Kevin couldn't log in one day because his FTB wouldn't load one of his tables causing him to crash. Doesn't mean we ban traincraft tables. A little adjustment on his end (I think it was the texture pack) was causing him to crash. If 1 person is the only one having problems then it has something to do with that user. Texture pack error, or maybe an error in the game files on their end. Just saying. Not everyone was crashing. I for one has zero problems prior to this incident this morning. Not sure who was having the issue but they should look at it on their end.
     
  13. VintagePC

    VintagePC GodModePC (Lead Developer) Srcds Server Operator Forum Operator Minecraft Operator Global Moderator Staff Member

    I'd say that affects more than one person, no?
     
  14. Gh0st

    Gh0st Not a Noob

    For him only. No one else was crashing. Everyone else was fine but 1. Singular to that person. I understand what you wrote but it would be a server problem if everyone could not get on. This was 1 person. Doesn't matter now. I guess i'm the only one that understands how this only affected 1 person. I'm done posting.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  15. VintagePC

    VintagePC GodModePC (Lead Developer) Srcds Server Operator Forum Operator Minecraft Operator Global Moderator Staff Member

    No, you're not understanding how this affects EVERYONE.
    The SERVER was crashing on startup. that means NOBODY can connect and play.
     
  16. Reechard

    Reechard Server Admin Srcds Server Operator Minecraft Operator Source Server Admin Staff Member Minecraft Admin

    The community currently runs 2 full hardware servers. One server runs all of the TF2/Source Engine servers, teamspeak, and mumble. That's 14 different services running on an 8-core server with 12GB RAM. It's not *pegged*, but there certainly isn't room for anything else. The other server is our webserver. It runs the web service that runs our site, the database server, and the minecraft server. This isn't pegged, but we've had spikes in web traffic here and there that pop the load up.

    What you don't understand is that we know how to do our jobs. We are in the positions we are in for a reason. Questioning VintagePC on how things work is not helping anyone. When we shut down the Tekkit server, I immediately devoted all of the RAM that was for Tekkit over to FTB. This only helps to a certain extent because of the following reason:

    A: Minecraft is written in Java
    B: Java is a programming language that makes itself OS-independent through the magic of making a virtual server with its own mini-operating system within your operating system (Inception anyone?)
    3: The virtual machine they run is only capable of utilizing a single CPU thread.
    C: This makes Minecraft a bloated, buggy, memory-leaky piece of shit that eats the fuck out of resources, except for CPU because it's too mentally handicapped to know what to do with all of the CPU you offer to it.
    F: Take that bloated, buggy, memory-leaky piece of shit, and add 45-ish different mods that were written by different people that don't give a crap about how their mod plays with everyone else's mods.

    THIS is what we're trying to maintain on our server. This is what is currently using an entire 4GB of RAM at any given moment, and is trying to use 140%+ of a single CPU core.

    NOW. Take all of this information, and consider this. This server has 2x 4 core CPUs with hyperthreading. If we were capable of giving it more resources, we would. It will use 100% of the RAM I give it regardless of the amount. I've given it 6 and even up to 8GB RAM, and it didn't increase performance, so I put it back to 4GB, which is where the performance leveled out. It's using every bit of resources that it knows how to use. If we could make it run better, we would. If we could dump more resources at it, it would have been done already. We *HAVE* the resources, it doesn't help anything.



    And no, I have no idea wtf you mean when you say it only effects 1 person. When that person logs into the server, it is not their minecraft client that crashes. The console on our server, the part that everyone's client connects to, throws a big ole capital-letter "JAVA FATAL EXCEPTION ERROR: I'M A BIG PIECE OF SHIT BECAUSE JAVA" and dies. It passes on. It ceases to be. It rings down the curtain and goes to join the choir eternal. It is an ex-server. Then one of us (the server admins) has to log in and restart it so you can connect again and play.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Gh0st

    Gh0st Not a Noob

    God I told myself I wouldn't post here again yet here I am for the last time. 1 person reported the server unavailable and crashing as it loaded. The rest of the people were fine. Still a singular issue. I understand we have tried other things but still a problem exists. I can 99% guarantee who reported a "server" error to cause this. These original posts are always so vague, no one can decipher wtf actually went on. Here is a fun situation that I will not report but bring to light. I cannot pass through portals without crashing on a 50/50 chance. Did I report it as a server issue? No. Because I researched and know this my problem to live with. Once I crash I get that same error that you state and for the next 2-10 minutes it tells me the server is unavailable and "looks" like it has crashed completely for everyone. This is only a personal issue and for that I have not reported it. One person has this same problem ( not due to portals) and freaks out; they report it without questioning their own problems and it becomes a mass problem while everyone else is fine and frolicking about on the server.

    What about the opinions of people that have zero problems and watch the people that do and can obviously tell that it's a problem on their end? Every time something like this happens, an admin fly's to the bases near by and then just assumes that something they are doing is causing the problem.

    Whatever you say that the person was doing while not logged in has been doing it for over a month with no issues to anyone. Out of nowhere someone has a problem (1 person) and that just becomes the issue and removing it is a good fix?

    It's hard to give anyone here an opinion from a point of view of someone that plays the most on the server and watches singular player issues arise and watch them blow the situation out of perspective. No offence to anyone here but I don't see why I'm getting reply's from people that play on the server once a month and therefor never see what actually happens.

    I know after the last bruhaha, the server got set on an auto restart to help even though no one admitted to agreeing with the decision. Did you know the server actually has not reset in 4 days? We have not had an issue since this started and this is the longest since the server auto reboots since it was sanctioned. Now we are back where we started but with more angry players.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  18. VintagePC

    VintagePC GodModePC (Lead Developer) Srcds Server Operator Forum Operator Minecraft Operator Global Moderator Staff Member

    I don't know where you're getting your information. I also don't know why you'd choose to believe your "source" rather than what's coming straight from the staff members involved in running the server, but I'm going to explain things again, with supporting evidence and correct a few misconceptions below.

    Let's get to the facts:

    1. The server was NEVER placed on an auto-rebooter. It was SUGGESTED in a thread as a fix for the problems. It was never actually implemented. How do I know? I was asked if I could write such a script, which I said I would if the loader fix didn't work. I haven't written that script. Unless someone else has rebooted the server in the interim, it has not rebooted since back when we implemented the world leak fix.

    2. This did not stem from "one person" reporting problems or having crashes. Nor were there any "vauge posts" involved. I was called in to do a server reboot for major lag. Proof? Server console was spewing "Cannot keep up" messages. After rebooting, that person then told me they could not connect to the server. I verified that by starting my FTB client and attempting to connect. Tell me again how this problem affects just one person?

    2a. You're still bringing up CLIENT CRASHES. That's not remotely related to this problem. We're talking about SERVER crashes, and there's a major distinction between the two.

    3. Well, off to the server log to see what went wrong. Lo and behold, I was greeted with a giant "EXCEPTION IN... blah blah blah". Okay, shit happens. Reboot server again. Server finishes loading mods, BOOM. "EXCEPTION IN....". Okay, time to read the crash report. Evidence in the log points at it being caused by loading a certain chunk. I disabled chunk loaders - and Voila! the crash is GONE and people can once again connect to the server and frolic about in the green fields of minecraft.

    4. Everyone in this thread I have seen in this server more than once since the beginnign of April. Your argument there is invalid.
     
  19. Gh0st

    Gh0st Not a Noob

    ...The server reboots itself at 11:45 every single night Mountain time. It has been doing that for 3 weeks without fail on the dot. Nacaseous (might be mis-spelled) can confirm this because he is usually on as well.
     
  20. VintagePC

    VintagePC GodModePC (Lead Developer) Srcds Server Operator Forum Operator Minecraft Operator Global Moderator Staff Member

    Color me skeptical if I don't believe you, but the server is most definitely not rebooting. Last logged reboot prior to yesterday I have is April 13, before that was April 2, and there are no plugins installed to that effect, nor is there anything in the startup chain/cron entries that kills/restarts the server.

    If you don't believe me, excerpt from server log below. Timestamps are central, note the curious lack of reboots at 00:45 each night.

     
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