HP reverts new PCs to Windows 7

Discussion in 'Tech Chat' started by Arron Dominion, Jan 20, 2014.

  1. Arron Dominion

    Arron Dominion Achievement Hunter

    Due to popular demand, HP has announced that their future PCs and Laptops will come with Windows 7 on them. You can still customize them to have Windows 8 if you want, but Windows 7 is back and they are advertising Windows 7 machines.

    I have to say this has to be a first time for a major hardware manufacturer to revert the operating system. I wonder what will happen elsewhere as a result.

    For the full article here:
    http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/20/5326844/hp-brings-back-windows-7-by-popular-demand
     
  2. Reechard

    Reechard Server Admin VF4-S (Server Operator) Minecraft Operator Staff Member Minecraft Admin

    I want to see the "-$50 : Remove Windows and Install Linux" option come from a major mfg. Dell had Ubuntu as an option, but it didn't remove the license fee if you did that, it just had linux as an OS option. This is a good first step though, getting rid of the worst OS...
     
  3. VintagePC

    VintagePC GodModePC (One-man Show) VF4-S (Server Operator) Forum Operator Minecraft Operator Global Moderator Staff Member DMC Tester Jailbreak Admin TF2L developer

    It's not an advertised option but you can refute the license agreement for Windows and get a refund for that from the PC manufacturer. Some are better than others in terms of how hard you have to fight.

    Other manufacturers sell 'barebones' models, my previous one was from MSI and shipped with FreeDOS installed, no Windows, no microsoft tax.
     
  4. Statboy

    Statboy Resident Cueball

    I had been a mac guy, but windows 7 was good enough to make me want a pc (and TF2 went f2p), windows 7 is actually a good OS, why did they feel the need to fuck it up?
     
  5. lonesome killer

    lonesome killer Banhammered

    Here's the thing. From a technical standpoint Windows 8 is better. It has better graphics support too (DirectX 11.2 or whatever it is). The biggest thing they did was change the way it looked and they removed the start menu and that pissed the most people off. I got a simple classic menu program for my mom's Windows 8 laptop and it now operates exactly like 7/Vista/XP. It's called Classic Shell if anyone is interested.
     
  6. VintagePC

    VintagePC GodModePC (One-man Show) VF4-S (Server Operator) Forum Operator Minecraft Operator Global Moderator Staff Member DMC Tester Jailbreak Admin TF2L developer

    The entire point is you _shouldn't_ have to do that. If decent usability out of the box requires installing something third-party, it's a broken product, and other "benefits" become irrelevant. They took a gamble on a tablet/touch-oriented interface on desktop computers... and it failed miserably.
     
  7. lonesome killer

    lonesome killer Banhammered

    It's honestly not that bad. You install an 8 mb program and it fixes it. Ask most people why Windows 8 is bad and they won't be able to say anything. (BTW using Win 7 here :D) Same thing for plasmas vs led tv's. Ask someone why plasmas suck and they won't be able to say a word. Just "someone told them."
     
  8. Reechard

    Reechard Server Admin VF4-S (Server Operator) Minecraft Operator Staff Member Minecraft Admin

    Installing a 3rd party app to make your OS usable honestly *is* that bad, Windows 8 is bad because you have to do that to get a good user interface. The other user interface is clumsy, clunky, and difficult to navigate in a desktop environment. That is why it is bad. The (very minor) performance increases are irrelevant in our 4+ core world.

    Plasma TVs are bad because LEDs last literally forever and plasma only lasts like 2000 hours. Also burn-in. Also power consumption vs LCDs or LEDs. Also thickness. Also weight. ETC ETC ETC.
     
  9. Arron Dominion

    Arron Dominion Achievement Hunter

    Windows 8 is less usable than Windows 7 due to the extra steps it takes for most normal operations. Also, Windows 8 actively tries to hide the more advanced functions rather than provide an easy way to switch between the views. The OS interface is difficult for most non-tech users. It just goes against everything a Software product should do in its next iteration.
     
  10. English

    English Global Mod

    Honestly there are no real issues with Win8. I use it. Sans start menu. I haven't installed anything like lonesome says. And anyone who complains about it being difficult... I just I don't know why they think that. You hit a key on your keyboard and voila you have access to the Win8 Start menu... I don't see why people have such a huge issue with Win8
     
  11. lonesome killer

    lonesome killer Banhammered

    Every major review site has said those issues where problems for 1st generation plasma tv's. They say it is no longer a problem and consistently rate plasmas higher than LCD tv;s.
     
  12. VintagePC

    VintagePC GodModePC (One-man Show) VF4-S (Server Operator) Forum Operator Minecraft Operator Global Moderator Staff Member DMC Tester Jailbreak Admin TF2L developer

    Hey, if it works for you, great. Everyone has their own preference. That said, the public outcry and the fact that it's been reverted in the next version speak for themselves.

    In my case I found the new menu a terrible, inefficient waste of screen space (really? 128x128 or more pixels for an icon that used to be 16 high in the old menu?), and the moment I want to do something "beyond" regular use I feel like I'm trying to use a Fisher-Price My First Computerâ„¢.

    Wow, double standards much? MS ships a broken product and you don't bat an eye at having to install a third-party program to fix it, but heaven forbid EA ship broken products like simcity/BF4? (yes, I'm intentionally ribbing you to give you a hard time :p)
     
  13. lonesome killer

    lonesome killer Banhammered

    Except that Win 8 isn't broken. Has anyone who talks shit about it actually used it? Every functionality thing is the same. The only difference is it has a new interface/menu system. It feels like everyone who complains about it is the same way old people complain about new things like cell phones. "Back in my day if we wanted to talk to someone we did. We didn't tweet them." Microsoft tried something new, and while I agree the menu screen is stupid, it's not like the OS doesn't work. The general public is just a bunch of dumbasses and again I tell you, ask anyone why Win 8 sucks and they won't be able to give an educated answer. They'll probably say something like "There's no start menu." Do you know how many people come into my store to buy Mac computers ($1,000 or more) and they tell me all they do is surf the web? That's how stupid people are.

    Also, I wish EA games could be fixed with an 8 MB patch. Are you telling me you run your computer 100% vanilla with no modification programs? That's all the start menu programs do. They let you modify the way your OS looks and operates the way you want it to.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
  14. VintagePC

    VintagePC GodModePC (One-man Show) VF4-S (Server Operator) Forum Operator Minecraft Operator Global Moderator Staff Member DMC Tester Jailbreak Admin TF2L developer

    As a matter of fact... yes, I do. There's a difference though. My computer is _usable_ to me in an unmodified state.

    Perhaps so, but if you change from something that required to to navigate two menus to find what you needed to something that requires several additional menus and/or pages of stuff to flip through... people are going to prefer the old system because it was faster and more efficient to use.

    I gave an answer as to why the new menu is bad in my previous post. That answer was based on my experience with win8. There are several other things I could mention but those would be specific to my use of my computer. Which reiterates my last point. It's a PERSONAL preference for everyone. Some people like it, many hate it for a variety of reasons that may be specific to their use cases; keep in mind that they _are_ the uneducated masses. For those people, it has to work properly out of the box. Sure, those of us that know more about computing know there are fixes for the menu out there. They don't, and likely can't be arsed to find one, because they shouldn't have to. They _WANT_ a magic box that provides the internet and email when asked, not something they have to assemble like flat-packed IKEA furniture.
     
  15. English

    English Global Mod

    Lets be honest. Win8 is far from "unusable." People just don't like the fact that they can't CLICK to get to the start menu. It takes the same amount of effort to get to the start menu with the Windows Key as does moving your mouse to the bottom left corner and clicking. There is nothing functionally wrong with Win8. It is all stylistic. It doesn't take an 8MB patch to make Win8 Functional. All the 8MB patch does is convert it back to Win7 because people don't like change. Please point out a functionality issue with Win8 not a stylistic issue. Is the start menu designed the best? Probably not. Is it 100% functional and usable if you have an IQ of at least 100? Yes.
     
  16. Arron Dominion

    Arron Dominion Achievement Hunter

    It is true that it is usable and functional, but the entry to use is higher than Win 7 due to the interface change and rearrangement of the core functions. This lowers the usability score for Win 8. The change in clicks and added steps also goes against its usability score since it makes it harder (in terms of number of steps) than it did under Win 7.
     
  17. lonesome killer

    lonesome killer Banhammered

    lol sitting in bed at 5 am and all i could think about was "1st world problems."
     
  18. SoL DarkLord

    SoL DarkLord SOL DARK LORD OF THE SEVEN HELLS Tabletop GM

    You could click to get to the "start menu" bottom left corner, and now with the 8.1 you actually have a visible button to push, because people complained that much. I have not needed to install any 3rd part applications to make 8 usable or any similar to 7. I don't miss 7, and I actually like 8. There I said it. How often do I go into my start menu and look for something? Rarely, because I still keep all my more used apps pinned to my start bar, but when I do it's pinned to the home page of the metro interface.

    Many people, just aren't giving it the time to actually mess around with it to see what it's capable of. Windows Key+X is a lovely shortcut, that I've utilized once I discovered it, that can get you to any part a system administrator or more advance computer user would use quickly, so you don't need to go through the long way of getting to what you want to.
     
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