kestrel
Active Member
hopefully this is the right place to put this. i apologize if it's not
ive been playing the TF2C mod for about 100-200 hours now, i've been around since the death and taxes update. i like the mod a lot, and most of the options feel pretty ok in terms of balance. but there's a few things that annoy me and i've never really collected my thoughts on them, until now
obviously not expecting any of my suggestions to be acknowledged but i just felt like writing them somewhere vaguely visible instead of just stewing on them
the high damage, one-shot noob tube approach makes the RPG feel like a very unskilled weapon to use. if you aren't planning on constant rocket jumping it's more or less a straight upgrade when you can bring a shotgun with you to make up for loading fewer rockets
i think it's fair to suggest that the RPG should, at the very least, not benefit from damage ramp-up. i also feel like more could be done to improve its role as an "artillery" launcher. what if instead of increasing damage, it had increased splash radius? that feels like a better fit since the lack of fall-off suggests you should be firing the gun at long range anyway. if you could hit multiple enemies with a 90 damage rocket with +%30 radius, that would give it much more value in an offensive role for busting engineer nests
also on the topic of soldier: i would like to see the buff banner return as an option. it's a fantastic weapon which promotes team play and can make a world of difference in a push. the option to be an anchor for your team who leads the charge is incredibly satisfying and it's the most balanced of soldier's three banners in live (mostly due to not having a passive effect it doesn't need - looking at you, conch)
i understand that eminoma don't want to just fill their mod with existing weapons, and i understand why the gunboats was made an exception for this rule (it's much more important to soldier's role than any banner is) but i think it provides a suitable enough change in playstyle whilst maintaining game balance
but now they've made the weapon too weak. smaller blast radius and lower damage leave very little reason to use it against the minigun. it's much worse on offense where the main reason to use it was the radial damage ability, to hit multiple tightly clustered enemies at once. it's okay on defence i guess but if there's no soldiers to shoot down, i'd rather just have the minigun
my proposal is to undo the stat nerfs on AA gun but prevent it from creating an explosion if it doesn't hit anything. this would make it much easier to escape the weapon because of its low firing speed. if the heavy doesn't have good aim, he won't be able to catch you in the AA gun's explosive radius and you'll be able to flee. firing at walls and floors would still be an option though, so if the gun is too strong after this change, then lock it to only creating explosions if it hits an enemy, to encourage accuracy
heavies and hauling engineers benefit the most from the jump pad, more than any other class in the game. having that kind of ad-hoc mobility available on the fly (literally) is extremely dangerous for classes who aren't supposed to have it. it isn't comparable to a teleporter. teleporter systems require much more setup (in terms of time and resources) and only really have one job, that being to help players skip the march back to the front lines. jump pads can be used for so much more, and often are. and that's great, i really like playing with and using jump pads. but i have concerns that heavy and engineer players are going to learn to exploit this new, very powerful and fluid movement option, for accessibility and options they never should have had
i know comparisons to live TF2 are contrite, but in the mannpower gamemode, the heavy's grappling hook is slower and weaker than the other classes to compensate for his immense power and vitality. the devs knew that giving him such a powerful form of on-demand mobility would be an extremely bad idea, so they toned down his version of the hook to keep him from being overpowered. i don't think it's unreasonable to suggest the same be done for the jump pad.
i actually play engineer the most out of any class in the game and i can say i've already found spots on maps where you can place sentries which are impossible to kill. PL_badwater last springs to mind. you can place a sentry on top of the entrance to the room overlooking the last point, which is a tremendous height advantage that few classes have the tools to crack.
KOTH maps are also very easy to shut down with jump pad abuse, particularly harvest. you can place a sentry on the roof of the enemy team's barn, and they can't do anything about it since it's such a powerful position, unless they get a sniper to kill you from the other side of the map.
there was one game of KOTH_nucleus i played where i had a friend pick heavy and jump with me to one of the ledges overlooking the enemy team's spawn. with a heavy and a lvl 2 sentry in position we single handedly locked down an enemy team of abt 9-10 players from ever getting to the point, let alone leaving their spawn.
if you want to make the argument that the AA gun isn't overpowered because players will eventually learn to play around it (which is true, tbf) then you should admit that engineers are eventually gonna learn about some ridiculous spots to hide sentries in where the enemy team are completely helpless to do anything about them. i'm just one of the first guys to do it, it won't be long before more spots are found which are even stronger than the ones i know about
either lower the height that heavies and hauling engineers get from jump pads and/or reduce the air control once they jump. from a thematic perspective, i don't think it's too unreasonable to suggest that a giant russian guy with an equally massive minigun, or a guy carrying an entire fucking automated turret that's almost his own height would probably get less height from a jump pad
finally here's a bunch of quick-fire suggestions i couldn't be bothered to write full paragraphs for:
scout's nailgun should do less damage to buildings so he can't snipe them from miles away
the sandvich should just heal heavy to full on one consumption, valve changed it for a reason because it's just a massive waste of time otherwise
the huntsman's drawing animation should be slowed down slightly to match the actual charge speed of the weapon. by the time the animation is complete, the huntsman only has about %70 charge
the mine launcher's change to fizzle out mines when placing new ones, rather than detonating them, was completely unnecessary and i'd like to see it returned
engie's coilgun having no damage falloff lets him fire 75 damage ricocheting shots across the entire map and i don't think i need to explain why that's ridiculous
the shock therapy should have a boosted recharge speed on medieval mode exclusively so that it can be used for both healing allies and self-defence
thanks for reading this light novella of a grown man crying about the balance of a free mod to a decade old game, and i hope the responses are at least more constructive than what i got on the game's official discord
ive been playing the TF2C mod for about 100-200 hours now, i've been around since the death and taxes update. i like the mod a lot, and most of the options feel pretty ok in terms of balance. but there's a few things that annoy me and i've never really collected my thoughts on them, until now
obviously not expecting any of my suggestions to be acknowledged but i just felt like writing them somewhere vaguely visible instead of just stewing on them
the RPG
the RPG being exempt from damage fall-off, but still benefiting from ramp-up, doesn't feel very fair. it makes the weapon frustrating to play against as a light class, especially scout who is normally a reliable counter to soldier. the weapon does as much as 146(!) damage (+%30 damage bonus, +%25 ramp-up) on its rockets. it's very annoying to round a corner and get insta-gibbed by a soldier who didn't even plan for you to be there.the high damage, one-shot noob tube approach makes the RPG feel like a very unskilled weapon to use. if you aren't planning on constant rocket jumping it's more or less a straight upgrade when you can bring a shotgun with you to make up for loading fewer rockets
i think it's fair to suggest that the RPG should, at the very least, not benefit from damage ramp-up. i also feel like more could be done to improve its role as an "artillery" launcher. what if instead of increasing damage, it had increased splash radius? that feels like a better fit since the lack of fall-off suggests you should be firing the gun at long range anyway. if you could hit multiple enemies with a 90 damage rocket with +%30 radius, that would give it much more value in an offensive role for busting engineer nests
also on the topic of soldier: i would like to see the buff banner return as an option. it's a fantastic weapon which promotes team play and can make a world of difference in a push. the option to be an anchor for your team who leads the charge is incredibly satisfying and it's the most balanced of soldier's three banners in live (mostly due to not having a passive effect it doesn't need - looking at you, conch)
i understand that eminoma don't want to just fill their mod with existing weapons, and i understand why the gunboats was made an exception for this rule (it's much more important to soldier's role than any banner is) but i think it provides a suitable enough change in playstyle whilst maintaining game balance
throwable stuns
the brick and det pack being able to force heavies to un-rev on direct hits is very frustrating to play against. i'm alright with the knockback and slowdown, but this extra punishment for heavy is too much. he's already extremely easy to hit with these throwables, why make it even more punishing for the class who has the hardest time avoiding them? you can cripple a push with one brick toss at a heavy who's leading the charge. it doesn't feel good to do, and it certainly doesn't feel fun to play againstAA gun nerfs
the AA cannon was overpowered when it was introduced, but since its nerfs it's now too weak. to me, it wasn't a problem of stats but rather of mechanics. the problem was that engaging an AA heavy was a do-or-die mission thanks to its AoE capabilities. if you weren't %100 sure you could beat him then there was simply no point in engaging with him because the mechanics of this weapon combined with its high stats made it virtually impossible to flee from a fight. you can't put a weapon that's this oppressive on a class like heavy, who is the game's strongest defender and a key target in any offensive push. you can't just "not engage" with a heavy (like i saw some of the devs suggesting) because he's always guarding objectives that the offense needs to winbut now they've made the weapon too weak. smaller blast radius and lower damage leave very little reason to use it against the minigun. it's much worse on offense where the main reason to use it was the radial damage ability, to hit multiple tightly clustered enemies at once. it's okay on defence i guess but if there's no soldiers to shoot down, i'd rather just have the minigun
my proposal is to undo the stat nerfs on AA gun but prevent it from creating an explosion if it doesn't hit anything. this would make it much easier to escape the weapon because of its low firing speed. if the heavy doesn't have good aim, he won't be able to catch you in the AA gun's explosive radius and you'll be able to flee. firing at walls and floors would still be an option though, so if the gun is too strong after this change, then lock it to only creating explosions if it hits an enemy, to encourage accuracy
jump pads in relation to heavies and engineers
jump pads shouldn't provide as much height to heavies and engineers carrying buildings. i actually proposed this in the game's discord and received a fair bit of flak for it, so i'll try to make this as clear as possible - i am not saying that jump pads are overpowered. i just think there should be an extra check for these two classes in particularheavies and hauling engineers benefit the most from the jump pad, more than any other class in the game. having that kind of ad-hoc mobility available on the fly (literally) is extremely dangerous for classes who aren't supposed to have it. it isn't comparable to a teleporter. teleporter systems require much more setup (in terms of time and resources) and only really have one job, that being to help players skip the march back to the front lines. jump pads can be used for so much more, and often are. and that's great, i really like playing with and using jump pads. but i have concerns that heavy and engineer players are going to learn to exploit this new, very powerful and fluid movement option, for accessibility and options they never should have had
i know comparisons to live TF2 are contrite, but in the mannpower gamemode, the heavy's grappling hook is slower and weaker than the other classes to compensate for his immense power and vitality. the devs knew that giving him such a powerful form of on-demand mobility would be an extremely bad idea, so they toned down his version of the hook to keep him from being overpowered. i don't think it's unreasonable to suggest the same be done for the jump pad.
i actually play engineer the most out of any class in the game and i can say i've already found spots on maps where you can place sentries which are impossible to kill. PL_badwater last springs to mind. you can place a sentry on top of the entrance to the room overlooking the last point, which is a tremendous height advantage that few classes have the tools to crack.
KOTH maps are also very easy to shut down with jump pad abuse, particularly harvest. you can place a sentry on the roof of the enemy team's barn, and they can't do anything about it since it's such a powerful position, unless they get a sniper to kill you from the other side of the map.
there was one game of KOTH_nucleus i played where i had a friend pick heavy and jump with me to one of the ledges overlooking the enemy team's spawn. with a heavy and a lvl 2 sentry in position we single handedly locked down an enemy team of abt 9-10 players from ever getting to the point, let alone leaving their spawn.
if you want to make the argument that the AA gun isn't overpowered because players will eventually learn to play around it (which is true, tbf) then you should admit that engineers are eventually gonna learn about some ridiculous spots to hide sentries in where the enemy team are completely helpless to do anything about them. i'm just one of the first guys to do it, it won't be long before more spots are found which are even stronger than the ones i know about
either lower the height that heavies and hauling engineers get from jump pads and/or reduce the air control once they jump. from a thematic perspective, i don't think it's too unreasonable to suggest that a giant russian guy with an equally massive minigun, or a guy carrying an entire fucking automated turret that's almost his own height would probably get less height from a jump pad
finally here's a bunch of quick-fire suggestions i couldn't be bothered to write full paragraphs for:
scout's nailgun should do less damage to buildings so he can't snipe them from miles away
the sandvich should just heal heavy to full on one consumption, valve changed it for a reason because it's just a massive waste of time otherwise
the huntsman's drawing animation should be slowed down slightly to match the actual charge speed of the weapon. by the time the animation is complete, the huntsman only has about %70 charge
the mine launcher's change to fizzle out mines when placing new ones, rather than detonating them, was completely unnecessary and i'd like to see it returned
engie's coilgun having no damage falloff lets him fire 75 damage ricocheting shots across the entire map and i don't think i need to explain why that's ridiculous
the shock therapy should have a boosted recharge speed on medieval mode exclusively so that it can be used for both healing allies and self-defence
thanks for reading this light novella of a grown man crying about the balance of a free mod to a decade old game, and i hope the responses are at least more constructive than what i got on the game's official discord
