Mar 26, 2021 6:19 AM -
Moira Prime:
Well I've had a fun morning
Mar 26, 2021 11:32 AM -
Statboy:
Even if this guy was right, and the ban wasn't warented. And this is a hypothetical because I don't know the specifics.
Mar 26, 2021 11:33 AM -
Statboy:
his response on the forum would alienate anyone on his side, and justify the ban hammer
Mar 26, 2021 11:47 AM -
VintagePC:
What you didn't see is that they tried to make that post pretending to be someone else to get them permabanned
Mar 26, 2021 11:48 AM -
VintagePC:
I edited the account name so as not to have this pointing at the wrong person
Mar 26, 2021 12:02 PM -
Moira Prime:
The person they impersonated will try to get themselves permanently banned anyways
Mar 26, 2021 12:02 PM -
Moira Prime:
they didn't seem very interested in the rules when I warned them
Mar 26, 2021 12:30 PM -
Statboy:
Lol, that is a good way to get someone else banned. Gotta give credit for the creativity.
Mar 26, 2021 3:25 PM -
catnipper: To whom it may concern, I've gotten banned by Moira Prime for a very broad reason
Mar 26, 2021 3:26 PM -
catnipper: I've been banned for "general douchebaggery and multiple rule violations" which does not say anything in itself at all
Mar 26, 2021 3:26 PM -
catnipper: I've been told there was video evidence of this, but when i've asked for it, i've been provided with nothing'
Mar 26, 2021 3:27 PM -
catnipper: I got kicked off the TF2C/VaultF4 discord for "concern trolling" since i've struck a nerve by asking basic transparency regarding things like this.
Mar 26, 2021 3:28 PM -
catnipper: Even the police that the people around this place LOVE to hate always supply proper information about what rules one has violated.
Mar 26, 2021 3:33 PM -
catnipper: I hope to god none of you suffers this kind of lack of due process in real life.
Mar 26, 2021 3:39 PM -
catnipper: To add insult to injury, Moira has been dead set on ignoring any kind of approach for a conversation about this.
Mar 26, 2021 3:40 PM -
catnipper: my FReqs have remained dead in the water, always great for these community figures to blow off the responsibility and only stick with parading around their flashy rank
Mar 26, 2021 3:45 PM -
catnipper: Oh yeah, after I was muted on the Discord, they made it a point to derail the discussion regarding this
Mar 26, 2021 3:45 PM -
catnipper: And after the mute I actually got banned.
Mar 26, 2021 3:46 PM -
catnipper: Such an effort to suppress one person with something to say.
Mar 26, 2021 5:24 PM -
VintagePC:
If you feel the ban is unfair you can make a formal ban contest in the appropriate forum like you were told in discord. That particular ban reason is often used for people with a history of infractions.
Mar 26, 2021 6:02 PM -
catnipper: What if i'm not contesting the ingame ban alone?
Mar 26, 2021 6:03 PM -
catnipper: What do I do about being booted off the TF2C discord, for example.
Mar 26, 2021 6:03 PM -
catnipper: And the only "infraction" i've had was like a resolved misunderstanding
Mar 26, 2021 6:04 PM -
catnipper: yet here it is being weaponized against me.
Mar 26, 2021 6:04 PM -
catnipper: Just because some mod-in-training hates my guts.
Mar 26, 2021 6:26 PM -
VintagePC:
I can't do anything about discord, we do not control that. All I can offer here is to review the situation against the available evidence and make a decision on the ban.
Mar 26, 2021 6:26 PM -
VintagePC:
(gameserver ban, that is)
Mar 26, 2021 6:27 PM -
catnipper: Well i've been treated underhandedly in that regard.
Mar 26, 2021 6:27 PM -
catnipper: At this point i'm just trying to figure out what is going through everyone's head
Mar 26, 2021 6:28 PM -
catnipper: I'm expected to follow protocol from a person's judgement which exactly doesn't follow any kind of protocol
Mar 26, 2021 6:29 PM -
catnipper: I ask, why am I banned, and I get is "you're a troll, get out of this discord"
Mar 26, 2021 6:29 PM -
catnipper: i've been told there's evidence, i ask to see it, I get nothing.
Mar 26, 2021 6:30 PM -
catnipper: And the ban reason isn't exactly saying much.
Mar 26, 2021 6:38 PM -
VintagePC:
I'm not going to go do a deep analysis of what is there unless there is a formal ban request (it is a time intensive process). However... (ct'd)
Mar 26, 2021 6:42 PM -
VintagePC:
a casual look at the Administrator log suggests this is not your first, nor second run-in with staff for breaking the rules. Two comms bans for language, one temp ban for the same, and now the most recent ban for whatever transpired to cause the current ban
Mar 26, 2021 6:42 PM -
catnipper: Yeah, I am very abrasive.
Mar 26, 2021 6:43 PM -
catnipper: But my first ban stemmed off from a misunderstanding, and the rest stemmed from me joking that someone's mom was a race fetishist
Mar 26, 2021 6:44 PM -
catnipper: meanwhile i get blasted with wayyy worse stuff on the reg and everyone spouting racial slurs walks away with a slap on the wrist.
Mar 26, 2021 6:45 PM -
VintagePC:
That's rich, coming from you given you are one of those people spouting the same rhetoric.
Mar 26, 2021 6:46 PM -
VaultBot: and was like not another story
Mar 26, 2021 6:46 PM -
catnipper: Which is?
Mar 26, 2021 6:46 PM -
VaultBot: ergo... if you understand the stats _first_ you will know how many features of the forum lets
Mar 26, 2021 6:46 PM -
VintagePC:
I checked the internal ban reports and the chat logs pasted there are not exactly pasting a kind picture of you
Mar 26, 2021 6:46 PM -
catnipper: Great, let's see them.
Mar 26, 2021 6:47 PM -
catnipper: It's easy to shuffle through someone's priors to attack their character. But I'm trying to find out what's going on in this exact situation to warrant the ban.
Mar 26, 2021 6:47 PM -
VintagePC:
Make a formal ban contest and I reply with any relevant evidence we have to substantiate the ban.
Mar 26, 2021 6:48 PM -
catnipper: Why even mention it if you're not gonna show anything.
Mar 26, 2021 6:48 PM -
VintagePC:
because there is not a trivial amount of time involved in sifting through what we have and composing a proper reply out of it.
Mar 26, 2021 6:49 PM -
catnipper: But plenty of time to put out this bureaucratic front while letting your admins pass judgements willy-nilly.
Mar 26, 2021 6:49 PM -
catnipper: If you had such an infallible reason to nix me out of the server, why not put that in the ban reason statement to begin with?
Mar 26, 2021 6:50 PM -
catnipper: I'm talking about what went on in this present situation to warrant a ban.
Mar 26, 2021 6:51 PM -
catnipper: Not what happened... what, 2-3 weeks ago?
Mar 26, 2021 6:52 PM -
catnipper: Because when I end up with arguing people whom hang out on voice chat most of the time, and the logs end up displaying only one side of the conversation.
Mar 26, 2021 6:52 PM -
catnipper: ..I'm gonna be looking crazy regardless, so what's the use in bringing stuff like that up?
Mar 26, 2021 6:53 PM -
catnipper: "you've had priors so your right to complain is void"
Mar 26, 2021 6:57 PM -
VintagePC:
Don't put words in my mouth.
Mar 26, 2021 6:57 PM -
catnipper: That's how the situation feels like.
Mar 26, 2021 7:08 PM -
VintagePC:
You've been told how to exercise your right to complain but are unwilling to do so. You do not lose it because you have priors, but the fact you have them gives less excuse for not being aware of the rules.
Mar 26, 2021 7:08 PM -
VintagePC:
I sincerely doubt you didn't know what you were doing, but if you require a reminder it appears to have involved spamming scramble/vip votes and griefing with someone impersonating other players on the server
Mar 26, 2021 7:08 PM -
VintagePC:
->Sourcebans takes canned responses for ban reasons while in-game
Mar 26, 2021 7:09 PM -
catnipper: I did NOT impersonate ANYONE.
Mar 26, 2021 7:09 PM -
VintagePC:
I did not say you did. I said you were party to griefing with someone else that was
Mar 26, 2021 7:10 PM -
catnipper: there were like 4 people doing what I did at max.
Mar 26, 2021 7:10 PM -
catnipper: And what I did was on par with some other people wasting time by doing the basic friendly stuff I see atleast once per week.
Mar 26, 2021 7:11 PM -
catnipper: So the other question that I've wanted to ask here is, can I report "friendly" players?
Mar 26, 2021 7:11 PM -
VintagePC:
Great, so take it to a ban contest. Put everything you refute on the table and I will evaluate it against the staff accounts of the incident and whatever else is available for review.
Mar 26, 2021 7:11 PM -
VintagePC:
And yes, when "friendlies" are detrimental to gameplay then action will be taken
Mar 26, 2021 7:11 PM -
catnipper: You could argue that they are always detrimental.
Mar 26, 2021 7:12 PM -
catnipper: Where do you draw the line exactly?
Mar 26, 2021 7:13 PM -
catnipper: What I'm asking for here is that you actually set my ban reason to something comprehensive instead of this extremely broad statement
Mar 26, 2021 7:13 PM -
VaultBot: unless i missed some new amazing mouse recently due to the back-end caching
Mar 26, 2021 7:13 PM -
catnipper: because the way i understand it is that you people have "internal evidence archives" of these things
Mar 26, 2021 7:14 PM -
catnipper: and if that stuff actually exists, then that gives you less of an excuse to let people dish out bans with shoddy descriptions
Mar 26, 2021 7:15 PM -
catnipper: Because if I keep getting stuff like this, I'm not gonna even know what I did wrong.
Mar 26, 2021 7:52 PM -
VintagePC:
This is exactly why I only deal with ban contests in a proper thread. Everything is in one place and in a logical threaded order rather than having to trawl through pages of chatbox messages where points and counterpoints jump all over the place.
Mar 26, 2021 7:52 PM -
VintagePC:
We do not deal in explicit hard and fast rules to cover every possible case because we know someone will always attempt to contest them by the letter and not the spirit. This necessitates a generic catch-all rule which we enforce when things become detrimental to gameplay to the point were other players report and/or complain about the issue.
Mar 26, 2021 7:52 PM -
VintagePC:
At some point, yes, that means someone is going to have to be a dick and draw the line on behaviour. And I trust my staff to make that judgement; It's a thankless enough job as it is that I sincerely doubt they have nothing better to do in their free time than have petty vendettas. But I'm flattered you think we take that much interest in you specifically.
Mar 26, 2021 7:53 PM -
VintagePC:
I have told you what your priors were for and just noted what you have been banned for this time. Right now you are continuing to try my patience by deliberately casting doubt on the staff's judgement, the contention you may not have done any of these things, what-about-ism, and by playing the victim to a staff member with a vendetta.
Mar 26, 2021 7:53 PM -
VintagePC:
Either go on record in a formal protest and refute what you contend you have not done, or stop whining about it outside of the established process. The vast majority of our players have no problems with our server rules and have no infractions despite probably never even having read them, so it is rapidly becoming clear to me this is a "you" problem and not an "us" problem.
Mar 26, 2021 8:12 PM -
catnipper: That's good, I'm not contesting a ban here. I'm asking your staff to do a better job on labeling their bans.
Mar 26, 2021 8:13 PM -
catnipper: The whataboutisms are there because there is genuine confusion surrounded by what makes for fun and what makes for genuine inconveniencing in these tiny servers.
Mar 26, 2021 8:14 PM -
catnipper: I'm casting doubt on the judgement of this particular admin in question because I've seen them mess up not too long ago in person
Mar 26, 2021 8:16 PM -
VintagePC:
Seems pretty straightforward to me, if one is doing something that is annoying other people in the server, then it's time to stop doing it
Mar 26, 2021 8:16 PM -
catnipper: Something is ALWAYS going to annoy someone else.
Mar 26, 2021 8:16 PM -
VintagePC:
and that's why there is judgement involved and not hard and fast rules.
Mar 26, 2021 8:18 PM -
catnipper: So if a person on my team goes idle just to play around with a sandwich all game and heal the enemy, I can report them, correct?
Mar 26, 2021 8:18 PM -
VaultBot: the drama in this one actually drives the story rather than being needless. soap opera's are needless drama in tv shows irks me
Mar 26, 2021 8:18 PM -
litrllyemma:
catnipper we have a rule againts griefing, so yes
Mar 26, 2021 8:18 PM -
catnipper: I had blatantly not made a thread about this because I have an issue with trusting the judgement here.
Mar 26, 2021 8:19 PM -
catnipper: So what, i make a thread where i state "this is unfair" when i don't even have access to whatever is incriminating me
Mar 26, 2021 8:19 PM -
VaultBot: did the surgeon hold it up to his own face and wear it as a record player. the farther you are seriously incapable of just buying a phone and not fucking with it
Mar 26, 2021 8:19 PM -
catnipper: all i have is an incredibly broad ban message.
Mar 26, 2021 8:20 PM -
catnipper: and an incredibly avoidant admin
Mar 26, 2021 8:20 PM -
litrllyemma:
so wait, is this whole thing about you not having evidence
Mar 26, 2021 8:20 PM -
catnipper: and a lock from the tf2c serv discord
Mar 26, 2021 8:21 PM -
VintagePC:
Admins are deliberately not involved in their own ban contests to ensure impartiality
Mar 26, 2021 8:21 PM -
litrllyemma:
> and a lock from the tf2c serv discord
Mar 26, 2021 8:21 PM -
catnipper: I'm insulted because there's a front of order and bureaucracy here while the end-user here gets treated with absolute hogwash
Mar 26, 2021 8:21 PM -
litrllyemma:
we are not involved in their decisions, at all. we cant choose who they kick or ban
Mar 26, 2021 8:21 PM -
catnipper: Not the ban contest, but the ban reason.
