[Resolved] Ban Appeal

[Moogle]

In-Game name: Moogle
Time of Ban: 08:34
Date of Ban: 06-08-23
Steam ID: STEAM_0:0:38230803
Reason for Ban: Inappropriate Spray
Additional Comments: This ban came not but 5 or 10 seconds after receiving a nondescript warning from the admin that only said "please follow our server rules". I only had enough time to type "???" and "what did I do?" into in-game text chat before receiving this permanent ban. I've been playing on these servers for over a month, typically on a nightly basis. Not once has another moderator even given me a warning regarding my spray, which I've been using for just as long. (I'll attach the spray seeing as how I don't imagine that will be included in the ban report).

 

[VintagePC]

It would appear that you have a history of sprays that were blocked (3, currently) for being in violation of our rules on overly sexualized images (in this case, cartoon characters featuring rather prominent crotch bulges). This is spelled out fairly explicitly as item 4 of our server rules.

I suspect what happened here is the staff member started to issue you a warning, checked your history, and then issued the ban for repeated infractions.

If you attempt to re-use a blocked spray you will be notified as such in game and we consider this sufficient "warning" for our purposes since violations are often brought to our attention after the player has already left the game.

That said, this being a permanent ban is not congruent with our denoted policies, and I will be shortening it to be in accordance with the posted 1-2 weeks.

 

[Moogle]

It would appear that you have a history of sprays that were blocked (3, currently) for being in violation of our rules on overly sexualized images (in this case, cartoon characters featuring rather prominent crotch bulges). This is spelled out fairly explicitly as item 4 of our server rules.

I suspect what happened here is the staff member started to issue you a warning, checked your history, and then issued the ban for repeated infractions.

If you attempt to re-use a blocked spray you will be notified as such in game and we consider this sufficient "warning" for our purposes since violations are often brought to our attention after the player has already left the game.

That said, this being a permanent ban is not congruent with our denoted policies, and I will be shortening it to be in accordance with the posted 1-2 weeks.

Might I request or suggest that this rule be further expanded upon due to the personal nature of how an individual moderator might make judgement towards sprays in particular (considering that this spray I was using was seemingly allowed by other moderators but not this particular one for close to or possibly even exceeding a month's time)?

You may see my frustration with the specific wording "overly sexualized" in item 4 of the server rules, as one of those 2 previous sprays banned (I have included as an attached file) clearly shows no such serious implication (and I would possibly argue that the most recent spray does nothing to sexualize a character that is simply wearing a swimsuit [would you say that a female character wearing the same thing falls under the same violations?])

I apologize for this wordy push-back, but I do feel that even a 1-2 week ban is far too harsh of a punishment when taking into account that the rules are written in a subjective way to the point that even the admins are divided when it comes to such things, as well as the fact that there are no other such infractions or bans on my account. I would instead request that the punishment be narrowed to a 3 day ban, and item 4 of the server rules be re-written with absolute clarity in mind.

 

[VintagePC]

The punishments are "harsh" because we had a significant number of both players and staff that were complaining about the proliferation of NSFW sprays in game under our prior spray enforcement policies, which were more lax. Generally speaking there's a time and place for that sort of imagery and we don't believe it is in a gameserver.

would you say that a female character wearing the same thing falls under the same violations

Yes. A female character with e.g. revealing outlines in a swimsuit bottom or cleavage practically bursting out of their bikini top would also fall under the same rules, and I can state that we have issued punishments for players with those sorts of sprays. I'll rebut your argument that this is "just a character in a swimsuit" by pointing out that more than a passing amount of attention has been devoted to the groin area, which is a common theme among this style of art.

and item 4 of the server rules be re-written with absolute clarity in mind.

The rules are deliberately broad because I would rather have something simple and broad than have to spell out every single thing that is or is not appropriate for a gameserver, and then defend all of those itemizations to someone trying to rule-lawyer their punishment because it doesn't meet the exact definition of what we'd called out. At the end of the day it's still a benevolent dictatorship and I'd rather look like a dick for having to draw a line in the sand on something borderline but "covered" by a broader 'common-sense' rule, than look like one for nit-picking itemizations. We've had rule policies like that before and it didn't work for us.

As for the spray you posted in your second message, I had a closer look and we do concur it doesn't violate the rules, though I can see why it might have been blocked, as when it's scaled down (such as in game or in our spray management system when I first glanced at your priors) it is easy to misinterpret on first glance.

Given this, you no longer have three infractions; I've unblocked the spray and will be lifting the ban shortly and I do apologize for the misunderstanding.

~Vintage.

P.S. - it occurs to me that your other account may have been imported at one point if you had registered on the TF2Classic forums instead of with us; after they were taken offline we decided to at least recover and preserve the content/threads, which also resulted in importing the users. If you like, I can merge the two accounts together for you.

 

[Moogle]

The punishments are "harsh" because we had a significant number of both players and staff that were complaining about the proliferation of NSFW sprays in game under our prior spray enforcement policies, which were more lax. Generally speaking there's a time and place for that sort of imagery and we don't believe it is in a gameserver.


Yes. A female character with e.g. revealing outlines in a swimsuit bottom or cleavage practically bursting out of their bikini top would also fall under the same rules, and I can state that we have issued punishments for players with those sorts of sprays. I'll rebut your argument that this is "just a character in a swimsuit" by pointing out that more than a passing amount of attention has been devoted to the groin area, which is a common theme among this style of art.


The rules are deliberately broad because I would rather have something simple and broad than have to spell out every single thing that is or is not appropriate for a gameserver, and then defend all of those itemizations to someone trying to rule-lawyer their punishment because it doesn't meet the exact definition of what we'd called out. At the end of the day it's still a benevolent dictatorship and I'd rather look like a dick for having to draw a line in the sand on something borderline but "covered" by a broader 'common-sense' rule, than look like one for nit-picking itemizations. We've had rule policies like that before and it didn't work for us.

As for the spray you posted in your second message, I had a closer look and we do concur it doesn't violate the rules, though I can see why it might have been blocked, as when it's scaled down (such as in game or in our spray management system when I first glanced at your priors) it is easy to misinterpret on first glance.

Given this, you no longer have three infractions; I've unblocked the spray and will be lifting the ban shortly and I do apologize for the misunderstanding.

~Vintage.

P.S. - it occurs to me that your other account may have been imported at one point if you had registered on the TF2Classic forums instead of with us; after they were taken offline we decided to at least recover and preserve the content/threads, which also resulted in importing the users. If you like, I can merge the two accounts together for you.

Hello again. I had an issue today with admin Juno! (again) regarding the sandwich spray in which they kicked me for using it. I tried to explain that it was whitelisted already before, but they still insisted that I change to a different one, before kicking me a second time. Is there any way to make it apparent that there is no higher issue with the spray to prevent future frustrations?

 

[VintagePC]

I'll look into it and speak to the staff member in question - For the record, it doesn't appear to have been Juno.